Don't listen to the haters.

Solid gun, lifetime warranty.

The Century Turkish imports are priced right as well.

 

I know next to nothing about the other brands like mke, omega, zenith etc. Are they worth looking into as well?

 

I've owned a pair of SP5K(s), a Zenith, and two PTRs.

HK is best - Nothing beats the feel of the real thing, but you're also talking big bucks.

Zenith is gtg. Quality gun that runs great. The black finish is different with a rougher texture, but I don't really care. I'm looking for another.

PTR - both my 9C and 9KT have a slight upwards bend at the trunnion that's not present on the HK or the Zenith. This makes it harder to look down the sights because you have to get much lower on the gun. Mounting an optic helps.

The 9C runs 100%.

The 9KT is a hunk of trash and I wish I had never spent the money. However, as you have mentioned, mine is an early model; I ordered when the 9KT was first announced. My issues with it:

• Upward bend at the trunnion
• Rear pin holes are not parallel, pin needs to be hammered in and out of the gun.
• Rear sight had to be replaced..cheap POS that won't hold zero and flew off the gun during the first range session
• Paddle mag release doesn't quite work, mags needs to be ripped out of the gun
• Magazines rattle and have a significant amount of play
• Bolt shaves the top of the magazine lips. Say bye to the resale value of your German magazines.
• Bumps on the lower are annoying, replaced lower.
• Had to butcher the new (originally in-spec) lower and trigger pack to get it to fit
• Yes, you need to change out the locking piece to run a suppressor. No, you will never find a locking piece that fits, because they are wildly out of spec.
• Developed roller bumps right away (although, yes, I did run it suppressed for 200 rounds). Had to replace weak recoil spring at 500 round mark.
• Has a steady diet of extractor springs

List goes on. I was heavily considering a G3 clone, but was so turned off by the 9KT that I will never consider another PTR, despite a good experience with my 9C.

I have no experience with the century models.

Good luck!

 

I've owned a pair of SP5K(s), a Zenith, and two PTRs.

HK is best - Nothing beats the feel of the real thing, but you're also talking big bucks.

Zenith is gtg. Quality gun that runs great. The black finish is different with a rougher texture, but I don't really care. I'm looking for another.

PTR - both my 9C and 9KT have a slight upwards bend at the trunnion that's not present on the HK or the Zenith. This makes it harder to look down the sights because you have to get much lower on the gun. Mounting an optic helps.

The 9C runs 100%.

The 9KT is a hunk of trash and I wish I had never spent the money. However, as you have mentioned, mine is an early model; I ordered when the 9KT was first announced. My issues with it:

• Upward bend at the trunnion
• Rear pin holes are not parallel, pin needs to be hammered in and out of the gun.
• Rear sight had to be replaced..cheap POS that won't hold zero and flew off the gun during the first range session
• Paddle mag release doesn't quite work, mags needs to be ripped out of the gun
• Magazines rattle and have a significant amount of play
• Bolt shaves the top of the magazine lips. Say bye to the resale value of your German magazines.
• Bumps on the lower are annoying, replaced lower.
• Had to butcher the new (originally in-spec) lower and trigger pack to get it to fit
• Yes, you need to change out the locking piece to run a suppressor. No, you will never find a locking piece that fits, because they are wildly out of spec.
• Developed roller bumps right away (although, yes, I did run it suppressed for 200 rounds). Had to replace weak recoil spring at 500 round mark.
• Has a steady diet of extractor springs

List goes on. I was heavily considering a G3 clone, but was so turned off by the 9KT that I will never consider another PTR, despite a good experience with my 9C.

I have no experience with the century models.

Good luck!

Wow damn, that’s a ton of issues. It’s crazy a gun can have that many problems right from the factory. It’s like there is no quality control whatsoever.

 

Bought one as a full auto host. Works perfect. Only minor issue I found is the traditional vertical front grip fits a bit loose. You wont feel the nubs on the grip. Gun appears to be built very well

 

See, then someone gets one that seems to be just fine. Is yours a newer model or did you just get lucky with an older one? Can the front grip be tightened up any?

 

I've posted about my 9KT in a couple of places. Bought mine in October 2019, so not a first run, and a few problems were being reported on the model by then, but so had a lot of fixes. I bought mine with the intention of running it suppressed and having the PDW stock on it, as well as not shooting anything lighter than 124+P NATO loads as they were meant to do.
-I bought it on a Saturday, intending to SBR and run a can on it, this was mid October. RCM 80* lock piece wouldn't fit in the bolt. Emailed them, and Monday had an RMA printed out. Shipped it out to them on Tuesday, they got it Thursday. They wanted the gun in original condition and also wanted me to send the RCM LP in with it. So all of that went back.
-Repeatedly called and emailed, got zero information back for about two weeks.
-Finally got a reply saying the gunsmith had it and would check it out, expected to have problem resolved that week.
-Two weeks later again after multiple emails I am informed that the problem was "resolved" and that the RCM piece is out of spec and now fits, but this comes with a gap that is now .035 which is way out of spec. They suggest trying an HK piece or finding another locking piece that is in spec. In addition, they found a "problem" with the trunion but don't go into any additional detail and say the smith is recommending that they ship me a replacement. So I was getting an entirely new 9KT shipped back to me.
-Had to wait for the current production run (November of 2019) barrels to be treated so that they could send me the new one.
-I got my new 9KT back, and had to install rollers in it to get it to proper bolt gap with my LP. The LP had been stoned/lapped, and you could see where they had done it so that it would fit. Not sure what current production serial is, but mine was 002XXX, which was about Oct/Nov of 2019.
-Took the 9KT to the range, and ran about 1K of rounds through it. Zero problems. None. No FTF, FTE, nothing. I just shoot 124+P GDHP and ball, or 147 GDHP or ball and that's it. It has been reliable with the can on or off. No issues with extractor springs, ejectors, or the buffer; still using the original parts of all of those. No roller dents at all.
-I've never had issues with the sights, but I also added tritium front and rear sights. I tried an RMR but liked the irons too much and went back to just using those. Also put the MI MLOK hand guard on there with an A3 broom handle and Streamlight 3V light.
-I SBR'd it, which if I had any concerns or hesitations I would not have done so. I don't want to get into a $200 hole and be stuck with an stamped SBR that doesn't work. With the PDW stock on it for over the last 18 months, it has continued to be completely reliable.
-If you are going to shoot it suppressed, using heavy projos, and a stock then you need to replace the LP. If not, then you may not need to replace the LP to shoot suppressed so long as you are shooting lighter loads or not using a stock/brace. That varies by gun and from what I have seen reported you have to just try it to see if it will work. If you shoot suppressed without changing the LP, watch for tearing up your buffer or the start of roller dents or violent recoil. I have heard that PTR has been working to make their bolts closer to spec to accept the different LPs, but I don't have any personal knowledge of this.
-The knobs on the grip are slightly annoying, but not overly noticeable when you are actually holding it. They don't get in the way or anything, I would just prefer a straight/smooth grip. I do plan on switching it out for the Magpul grip module but it really has not been a priority.
-With the OEM backplate I didn't have any issues with the pushpins. With the PDW stock, the fit was worse, and that is universally reported on if you use the Choate stock. I expected it to be the case, and it was. It's not a huge deal, there is some wobble from the back plate of the PDW stock, but again that appears to be an issue with putting the Choate stocks on. Once the stock is shouldered and you snug it up, it doesn't wobble or anything during firing and it definitely does not interfere with or degrade accuracy.
-The front grip issues that I've seen have mainly been with the American production models, which seem to have a shorter ledge that fits into the recess in the trunnion. The HK (and maybe POF and other licensed builders) have a slightly longer ledge that engages the recess better. I have an American K grip that I used before I put the MI handguard on and it had a ledge that was long enough, so that wasn't an issue for me but I have seen people bring that up.
-As far as the magwell issue, mine is a little loose, but not problematic. Never heard of the issue being that the magwells were intentionally oversized for the crappy plastic mags. All my mags are the HK 30s and 15s, and they've all worked great and I have not had any issues with stripping/damaging the feed lips.

Regarding their other models, I have the GIR, the GI, and KP3 (set up as a G3K clone) models of their 91s. I have had absolutely no problems with any of those. I plan on getting another PTR shortly.

 

Mines a month old
Front grip still works. But there’s a bit of a gap. If we’re any shorter it would fall off. 1/8” is all that’s holding it. But it is holding it. Not horribly loose but just a bit. It is the American version not HK

To get a FA Mp5k for $1500 I think it’s an amazing gun for the money . What’s even more nice is it’s 100% FA ready. My vector 53 and ptr.91 needed trigger housings and a bit of tweaking to get to go. The 9k ran 100% out of the box

 

You are going to hear all kinds of mixed stories on the PTR's any every other clone out there. Im not going to claim the PTR 9kt is good to go just yet since I have only put 4700k though it so far. I will say though that it has not had a single feeding issue thus far and has actually beat my old HK MP5 in that department.

 

Have you had to change any parts yet, or is it all stock?
Plastic mags or metal HK ones?

 

I remember having to do more than a little tinkering with springs, LPs, mags, ammo, to get an SP89/PDW build to run the sear pack and can reliably. At one point it went RDTS. Comes with the hobby I suppose.

At least PTR has responsive CS and is stateside. Founded or unfounded I had similar reliability concerns with the 9KT and went with the 9CT instead. I’ve put close to a case of cheap plinking ammo thru it; trouble free so far. The gun chewed up one ETS mag which ETS promptly replaced. The KCI mag does not fit as snug as the plastic but runs 100%.

 

Will ptr help you get a FA trigger pack going if your having issues ?

 

Asking in a forum like this is going to get like 3 people who swear they've never had a problem and 30 people who saw it literally stab their mother to death. Every single manufacturer is going to have some issues. The thing you should be asking yourself is given their popularity are you seeing more people complain about them than you should? Pretty much ignore people without issues as most people without issues are not going to go online and discuss it.

 

With the Century MKE's selling for the price point they are at, the only advantage to buying a PTR would be if you intended to use it for a sear host... well at least the only prominent advantage... just my opinion

 

From dealing with the lack of customer service from Century in the past with other firearms that's going to bump the PTR advantage up a notch.

 

Well... on one hand, I agree with you about customer service being a factor.... each person really has to stack rank their own priorities when making the determination but for me personally, customer support would be lower on the list when we are talking about a 1650 clone because if I were to have problems, I would feel comfortable sending to a reputable smith for correction rather than relying on customer service. Once you dip into that 2500+ range, then I want it to work out of the box with no further investment necessary. This is, of course, because I already have a substantial number of suitable beater clones but in the past, I probably would have ranked support higher on the list.

So for me, it goes more:

Price
Correctness/Authenticity
Resale value
Function/Support
Host potential

So the MKE option hits everything on the head

If you were

Price
Function/Support
Correctness/Authenticity
Resale value
Host potential

Then I could definitely see how the PTR might be the better option... and if you notice, changing the rank further to say Correctness/Authenticity above price, you would land in the HK range, ETC

 

That is true for some but to me its just a Turkish made clone with Century Arms stamped on it which is almost as devaluating as owning an I.O firearm IMO. For me resale is not a concern. Every firearm I have ever sold I have got more for it then I put into it & then some. Hell my PTR has already paid for itself in the short time I have owned it.

 

Well... on one hand, I agree with you about customer service being a factor.... each person really has to stack rank their own priorities when making the determination but for me personally, customer support would be lower on the list when we are talking about a 1650 clone because if I were to have problems, I would feel comfortable sending to a reputable smith for correction rather than relying on customer service. Once you dip into that 2500+ range, then I want it to work out of the box with no further investment necessary. This is, of course, because I already have a substantial number of suitable beater clones but in the past, I probably would have ranked support higher on the list.

So for me, it goes more:

Price
Correctness/Authenticity
Resale value
Function/Support
Host potential

So the MKE option hits everything on the head

If you were

Price
Function/Support
Correctness/Authenticity
Resale value
Host potential

Then I could definitely see how the PTR might be the better option... and if you notice, changing the rank further to say Correctness/Authenticity above price, you would land in the HK range, ETC

 

I've had my PTR 9KT now for almost two years, I've put 2k rounds through it. Early on I had one issue with peening on the firing pin. But that was corrected, it never failed with firing however.

 

I have one. I knew I would be suppressing it so changed out the LP and also the bolt. Both RCM. That did the trick. No problems. No malfunctions. Swapped out the foregrip with an HK foregrip, put a B&T side folder on it, have swapped out the castle sight for a drum sight since I like shooting with a stock giving me a cheek weld and the drum just seems to give me a better sight picture. For me, the price is nice and the quality was fine. I would have gotten an SP5K but 1) at the time they didn’t have all the “improvements” (ie all the features that came on the guns in the first place, ie paddle mag release, etc.) that they have now, and 2) you can’t ever find the things available for sale let alone at a reasonable price point. I have only ever seen one SP5K for sale in a gun shop and that was at $2400.00 new. Just didn’t have the $ at the time. So, I ended up with a PTR, which has worked out fine for me. Very happy with it. I run a Silencerco Octane 45 on it and have had no issues at all.

Now looking for a 3 lug adaptor the next week led me into a M249 SAW but that’s a story for another time…

 

Thats great. Definitely seeing a lot of positive feedback for them. I’m seriously considering getting one for myself.

 

The PTR "clone" weapons are made with HK tooling. I own one and it is way better than the Century, SW / Bobcat / Cohare , Cetme line hands down. Vector are just as high quality. I have tried each of these, and have first hand experience with each one as well as a military HK platform.

 

PTR 91 clones are made from... well HK licensed tooling... ancient tooling at that... but their 9mm clones are made from LSC flats and I assume their own internals.

Special weapons tooling is bobcat, coharie and vector. Yes... vector was supplied their receivers by special weapons.

Century is supplying MKE which is a licensed manufacturer of HK MP5's, taking the former spot of Zenith and ATI (If memory serves correct)

So I have some concerns about your claim that vector was better than special weapons or Coharie... and lumping the ap5 with other century builds is concerning as well. Oh... and claiming PTR is using HK tooling is also alarming.

Before giving some innocent first timer a bunch of misinformation, I would suggest you fact check your statement... that way no one ends up feeling duped after they make a purchase and find out what they bought isnt what they thought it was.

 

I have a 9ct. Late 2019 build. The loose magwell was ABSOLUTELY a thing! ETS mags went strait in the trash, and gun went to PTR. Two week turn around was a pleasant surprise. Gun has been flawless ever since. For what was a $1200-1300 gun at the time, I’ve been very happy. While they’ve had teething problems with the 9’s, they will stand by their work and make it right. And ‘no’ they are not made on HK tooling. Not in the 9’s, at least. Also, tjere were more issues with the ‘K’ guns than the standard (which is true across every ‘K’ gun by all manufacturers-INCLUDING HK! It’s a bit harder to tune the little guns, it seems). My CT has fit other locking pieces, and shot with a Gemtech Lunar, without issue.

Another option I would (highly) recommend looking into is one of the MKE’s that are trickling out from Century Arms. They are 100% contract guns, made whith HK blueprints, using HK jigs on German Fritz Werner tooling if you care about that sort of thing (I honestly don’t care). One huge plus over the PTR is MKE’s cold hammer forged barrel. A step up from milled/nitide, IMO.

I just picked up an ‘AP5-P’ last month (basically a ‘K’). It’s welded in at the right places, and a straight gun. Mine has a surprisingly good trigger. Better than my PTR 9, or the two other G3 clones I own (o luck of the draw on any roller lock). I paid a hair over $1600 out the door for a gun that was listed at over $2600 mere month ago. Had the Form 1 in before it was even released to me (there’s a waiting period in WA for everything, now days).

The one down side with the MKE is that Century will likely not lift a finger to support you if anything does go wrong. They have a long standing history of dropping the ball, or messing things up that they do take back to ‘fix’. So better to have one in hand to look over before you buy. But other than a fairly thin finish I’m happy with mine. And to be clear/contrary to a post above, Centry is simply the importer right now. So their not touching a thing, as they are being imported as pistols, so no 922r pieces to add. Bottom line: They are (so far) exactly like the fine pieces imported by Zenith that are held in high regard just a few short years ago.

Lots of fun to be had.

 

I bought a Century/MKE AP5 and SBR’d it. (I’m a SOT) Compared to a real HK it’s very close to the real thing. I was so impressed with it I bought the P (K) model and built one out too. I had to polish some paint off of one of the tri lugs to work with my Griffin mount but what do you expect when they paint them. Other than that they function great and for half the price of an HK they are an exceptional deal. The MKE mags work too.

I heard that some of the 3 lugs were out of spec and Century exchanged the guns to make it right.

 

Totally agree. Century is selling the MKE which was previously imported by Zenith. Now Zenith states that they will be building their own version of the product in the US which PTR already does. I think only the MKEs are made on HK tooling as a licensed product. The AP5 products are not built by Century they are imported as a pistol as built by MKE.

 

There is one thing I don't have the facts on... which is: "What, if any, difference is there between actual HK tooling and HK Licensed manufacturing?"

Maybe someone here knows, but in some manufacturing circles, Licensing does not mean "supplied"... it essentially means "permission to copy." In some instances, those companies still develop their own tooling, or receive some measure of support/tooling on some level, but it may not be comprehensive or complete. So what I don't know that I can say, definitively, is if MKE or POF got a tooling shipment from HK and started running product or if they received designs for tooling and then made their own, or if they received permission and then developed their own tooling (or really any combination of the above).

There is certainly the chance that I am wrong and HK literally built and sold these companies tooling, but if I were to guess, my guess would be that licensing means I get permissions and some tooling specifications/designs that allows me to make my own HK tooling which, if correct, would subject my parts to the same variances involved in my competency in copying those designs.

 

What, if any, difference is there between actual HK tooling and HK Licensed manufacturing?"

As I understand it, tools such as jigs and heavier equipment such as hammer forges were provided by HK, along with official documented specs/blueprints/instructions on how to produce an ‘HK spec’ gun.

There have been many licensed HK builders over the years in various countries. Currently, I believe MKE and POF are the ones I can think of in operation right now.

If I recall, there were a couple builders who have acquired HK tooling second hand, after a licenced builder ceased production (thinking PTR and thier 308 lineup, I believe), but not to say they got everything in the range or process. And being a ‘licensed’ builder doesn’t mean to someone didn’t read the directions, or hire a batch of monkeys to do the labor (looking at you, POF).

Also, the date when the license was granted may matter some. A few liketo point out that some that there’s been tons of deutsche weltraummagie poured into the newer HK models, that they’ve left their licensed kinder to produce arms from the dark ages that will likely explode with hot ammo. What evs. As long as they’re fun to shoot, game on.

 

MKE is licensed by HK to make this product. Here is the description from the Turkish defense industry catalogue. Pretty much a licensed copy. I guess the quality is determined by how good of a copy it is. So far I’m pretty happy.

TURKISH DEFENCE INDUSTRY PRODUCT CATALOGUE

TURKISH DEFENCE INDUSTRY PRODUCT CATALOGUE

www.ssb.gov.tr

 

Hahaha... that all makes sense. Thanks for the info!

 

Bah... all of my stuff are clones... I am no elitist at all. I actually own just about all of the clones... lol...but the only think HK I have is a hk45

 

Here is the short list of arsenal factories that mass produced MP5 on HK tooling (presently under license or at one time) for law enforcement and military that are/ were imported into the US for civilian market;

HK, MKE and POF.

Zenith, Century, Fedarm etc. are all importers.

 

I agree. the two licensed clones are likely closer to the true HK MP5s in service with military or LE groups worldwide. They h e been made for decades in that configuration. The F came along late in the MP5’s history and at the end of (or even after) the SMG’s heyday.
The biggest change in the F is in the Locking Roller Holder. This is the most common breakage point in the MP5. I have seen 1 Agency issue mid-80’s vintage MP5 fail here. Easy fix and anecdotal as its the only one I have seen break/was there when it happened /and in a high mileage/over-mag dump abused gun no less, but it did happen. Anyhow, this failure is consistent with what HK found that this is the most common breakage point in the gun. The reason for the upgrade? The F (for French) came about when the French Police wanted the ability to shoot the equivalent of proof loads (above NATO and +P+ pressure) and a lot of them....with no breakages. HK took lessons learned from the .40 and 10mm MP5’s and developed the F (HK calls it E2 I think) in 1998.
I am sure it has happened somewhere by someone...but I have never seen an F break. The F has other things that help with drop tests etc. but I think the roller locker holder is the biggest upgrade. It would seem that this upgrade is also what allowed the F to successfully blow through the French tests. Not sure any of the new SMG crop could pass this test. Maybe they could but don’t know...
Jim Schutz was a wonderful resource on all things HK. He did an interview with SAR where he dove deeper into the upgrades and why they were done. IMO he was the most accurate information on such things and if I said anything contrary to him....go with him!
If you are interested in the upgrades I would read that article.
Apologies but it’s apparently beyond my ability to link the article here. I spend too much time reading about these things to learn how to operate a computer as well as an 8yo.....oh well.
Again, enjoy your gun. Any good clone is really cool and the MP5 made its reputation long before the F was developed.

 

I agree. the two licensed clones are likely closer to the true HK MP5s in service with military or LE groups worldwide. They h e been made for decades in that configuration. The F came along late in the MP5’s history and at the end of (or even after) the SMG’s heyday.
The biggest change in the F is in the Locking Roller Holder. This is the most common breakage point in the MP5. I have seen 1 Agency issue mid-80’s vintage MP5 fail here. Easy fix and anecdotal as its the only one I have seen break/was there when it happened /and in a high mileage/over-mag dump abused gun no less, but it did happen. Anyhow, this failure is consistent with what HK found that this is the most common breakage point in the gun. The reason for the upgrade? The F (for French) came about when the French Police wanted the ability to shoot the equivalent of proof loads (above NATO and +P+ pressure) and a lot of them....with no breakages. HK took lessons learned from the .40 and 10mm MP5’s and developed the F (HK calls it E2 I think) in 1998.
I am sure it has happened somewhere by someone...but I have never seen an F break. The F has other things that help with drop tests etc. but I think the roller locker holder is the biggest upgrade. It would seem that this upgrade is also what allowed the F to successfully blow through the French tests. Not sure any of the new SMG crop could pass this test. Maybe they could but don’t know...
Jim Schutz was a wonderful resource on all things HK. He did an interview with SAR where he dove deeper into the upgrades and why they were done. IMO he was the most accurate information on such things and if I said anything contrary to him....go with him!
If you are interested in the upgrades I would read that article.
Apologies but it’s apparently beyond my ability to link the article here. I spend too much time reading about these things to learn how to operate a computer as well as an 8yo.....oh well.
Again, enjoy your gun. Any good clone is really cool and the MP5 made its reputation long before the F was developed.

That article sounds like a good read - found it here for anyone who's interested (by Jim Schatz):
The New HK MP5F Submachine Gun (smallarmsreview.com)

 

When I bought my 9CT, I went into it thinking since I’m not going to be relying on it for anything serious, I can always take advantage of the lifetime warranty and PTRs good customer service. Might be out of a fun MP5 clone for a couple months if I have to send it in multiple times, but I’m okay with that

 

I’d like to hear if you do have any problems. I’m guessing you won’t.