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Zenith Blem receiver update….

10K views 56 replies 23 participants last post by  Grease Gunner  
#1 ·
So I thought I’d take a few minutes and give an update on how “easy” the blem receivers are to assemble that came from Zenith a few weeks ago. I took one at random from the box as well as the parts I ordered and tried to put it together “just like an AR15” as it should be that simple….right?

Well here’s a break down of what I found along the way:

•I tried three different bolt assemblies (all original HK94 take outs) to find one that had a decent bolt gap. All had 00 rollers and a standard 100 degree locking piece. First one was at .004 and the second was .026 with the third one coming in at .014

•Tried to install the magazine paddle release bushing only to find I had to open the hole by one drill size as it was slightly out of alignment when the paddle was on the bushing.

•Went to install the magazine catch only to find I had to open that hole up too as it was too tight on the slider. I also found that I had to drill out the magazine release button hole and matching hole in the magazine catch as the roll pin supplied was .110 and the hole was only .101 (sorry to break it to you-but roll pins don’t like to collapse .010 when they are big, let alone small)

•Ground down the heavy welds To make it more appalling to the eye and gotta say that didn’t look too bad….oh and had to grind the rear stock pin bottom so the lower and stock would interface correctly.

•Found that the cocking handle cap hole (in the front sight ring) was crushed/egged by .050 and I had to recut so I could install the cap correctly.

•When using an HK rear sight (off a demilled MP5 kit I got in) I found that the rear sight mount was slightly thicker so a few strokes of a file were needed so the rear sight would slide freely if adjustment was needed.


Now for the range report:

After cycling and dry firing in the shop to make sure it was working correctly, I took it to the range for test fire. Right out of the gate I found that the trigger wasn’t resetting. I could feel it grinding on something when it was trying to reset after firing (didn’t hang up while dry firing) took the trigger pack apart and found that there was a rivet head in the housing that was sticking up ever so slightly, putting pressure on the trigger and causing it to not freely rebound (this trigger group was purchased from Zenith too)

All in all I spent roughly 5 1/2 hours on this “easy to assemble” blem receiver. Now that it’s done, I can say that it’s a great shooting weapon, BUT I can also tell you that it’s not for someone who has never worked on an HK roller lock firearm before and not for someone who thinks it’s just a “plug and play” like “building an AR”
 

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#6 ·
So I thought I’d take a few minutes and give an update on how “easy” the blem receivers are to assemble that came from Zenith a few weeks ago. I took one at random from the box as well as the parts I ordered and tried to put it together “just like an AR15” as it should be that simple….right?

Well here’s a break down of what I found along the way:
So that's a no. Got it.

Thank you GG
 
#9 ·
I used to own part of a manufacturing business that included stamped parts. It's really an art to get a complex stamped piece like a MP5 receiver to bend and fit properly. If the parts discussed by Grease Gunner above were those described per my previous post at for sale $199.95, they are not described correctly.

I would call them serious rejected parts that you "MAY" be able to repair with effort. Or use as an art project or non functional display gun. The problem with selling them cheap is they probably have a serial number on them and are considered a gun and not scrap.
 
#10 ·
•I tried three different bolt assemblies (all original HK94 take outs) to find one that had a decent bolt gap. All had 00 rollers and a standard 100 degree locking piece. First one was at .004 and the second was .026 with the third one coming in at .014
Why do you think the bolt gaps varied so much? Were the locking pieces and rollers worn out on a couple bolt assemblies? It's a "new blem" so the locking surfaces of the trunnion shouldn't be worn.

My limited understanding of it is the locking piece, the rollers and the trunnion are the wear parts and basically define the bolt gap. Assuming the barrel is located correctly and pinned in place so as not to move.

Was the trunnion welded in square with the reciever? I thought it was you or maybe someone else who said they had seen clones with the trunnion welded in crooked (rotationally I mean).
 
#11 · (Edited)
It could have been slightly worn rollers, bolt body OAL difference or locking pieces but remember everything has a tolerance to it when manufactured. That’s why you should head space your barrel to the bolt and carrier assembly you intend to use with it. Just because it “should work” doesn’t mean it always will work.

The receivers you show in the link don’t have the trunnion or barrel Installed. Those wouldn’t have the same issues as what this one (and maybe the rest) have. I’ll know more as I get into them deeper.

The trunnions look good as far as being in straight. I’m going to dig deeper into the next couple to see if anything else is “blem”

Yes these are considered firearms as they sit and it would be a bunch of paperwork to “destroy“ them. Plus if you sell them as a “blem” you don’t take a total lose on them. You can recover some of your money and write the rest off vs the entire thing being a write off. I took the risk on them as there is roughly $600 in parts in the receiver as it sat, so yeah I took a gamble.

Least I knew what to look for and how to fix it….funny I made that exact same comment in the thread about these when I was vilified for buying them.
 
#12 ·
I'm not going to criticize anyone for buying a project. I like taking a gamble and I like learning and fixing things. I'd rather work on making something better than watching TV. Learning costs time or money. If I can break even after taking a gamble I think I have done well. A profit is even better but I learned something either way.

I have my own junk yard as evidence. My neighbors don't complain when I come up with a part or fix something for them.
 
#13 ·
I foresaw this.. the caveat about "users can still zero" & their Instagram video sweeping MP5 build parts into a pan like trash disturbed me.

Now that it’s done, I can say that it’s a great shooting weapon
More than I can say about a non-blem ZF5 and Z5P in my possession. Zenith is "not ready out of the box".

I am curious to know what member of their organization weighed the short term payoff of hawking out of spec schiB versus long term effects from losing trust and reputation.
 
#14 ·
I am curious to know what member of their organization weighed the short term payoff of hawking out of spec schiB versus long term effects from losing trust and reputation.
I was thinking the same thing. In the end a lot of them will end up as junk guns showing all Zenith markings. In the age of the internet I can't think of a much worse thing to do for a manufacturers reputation for quality.
 
#15 ·
I like this company less, & less every day. They keep raising their prices while Century keeps lowering their‘s. Today, an AP5 is $1107 delivered from Atlantic. Zenith wants $1400 for a blem gun with no accessories. $1900 for a non blem gun. Some say well it’s an American gun, & they don’t support the Turkish way of life. But yet the owner of Zenith is from Turkey. Not impressed. GARY
 
#17 ·
Gary... I am on the verge of offering to venmo you cash if you can make it through one post without relating whatever the topic is to an AP5... do you work for Century?

PS... funny... Zenith appears to be using Special Weapons receivers... I wonder what else is Special Weapons tooling.
Don’t do Venmo, sorry. How about PayPal? And now you say they’re using Speshul Weapons receivers? I do have two friends who work for Century here in Florida that I used to work with at the LGS. And my remarks are for those who still think Century has their “angry beavers” build these in Vermont. They’re the best deal out there, unless one feels it’s better to spend $3500 for the letters HK. Enjoy your day. GARY
 
#21 ·
At least everything is on the big side, more room for dirt and debris!

The pics with the centerline drawn, are you saying the magwell is canted and crooked/angled?

I've been thinking about the bending jigs and truing/straightening tools I want to make, and I've always thought a block to align the the rear "tang" and the mag well housing would be a good idea.

John
 
#25 ·
I have 5 of the receivers that were/are coated and have the rear sight, cocking handle assemblies installed coming in tomorrow. When I get them, I’ll try to look them over and let everyone know the stays of these. I got a feeling they will be in a similar condition….
 
#30 ·
Thanks.
Sure am glad people wanted to crucify me for buying these so everyone could have had a cheap and easy MP5 assembly build LMAO
If they were accurately billed as "Gunsmith special: several functional problems that require platform-specific knowledge and tools", I don't think anyone would have faulted you, since the value-added service you were to provide would have been obvious.
But had they actually turned out to be simple cosmetic blemishes as Zenith did bill them, the concern with "flipping" culture makes more sense - and surely you can see where that concern came from, even if you do not think it applied to this specific scenario or to your intent with your purchase - where a product could be bought and readily used by an end-user, but instead the opportunity was snatched by someone who only intends to flip them for a profit with no value/service added.
 
#32 ·
Well I took great offense to that when it was said because no one asked what my intentions were with them as I had originally thought of using them for SD hosts or finishing them out as training guns for local LEO’s but now I’m not so sure what I’ll end up doing. I know that whatever I do, I’m going to do them all complete with new parts and make sure they are fully functional and then go from there.
 
#38 ·
Agreed with DFJ, I definitely do enjoy having the push pin housing. In buying an MP5 in 2023, (a relic), I want the "MP5 experience", and having the higher degree of authenticity in the MKE gun fits that bill moreso than the altered-configuration SP5 does.

Edit: Oops, looks like we were going back on-topic. Well, Zenith is definitely losing credibility in my eyes with this episode.
 
#39 ·
I hope in a few weeks when I get caught up on customer work, I can dive into these receivers and see what I can make happen with them. I'm cautiously optimistic about the shipment of the coming in tomorrow....we will see what happens. Stand by for the report....
 
#41 ·
UPDATE on second batch of receivers.....

These were the "coated" receivers that had the magazine catch/release assemblies installed, the rear sight on them, and the cocking handle with support, front sight and cocking tube cap also installed. I just came up from doing some checks on them and here's the report on these:

Magazine well-catch and release-the magazines (both new manufacture HK and date code units) lock in but 3 of the 5 have up and down as well as back and forth movement. The other two lock in solid and don't move at all.

Bolt gap checks-I used my remaining HK94 bolt units as well as assembling another unit with my new MAD bolt head, PTR take out locking piece, HK firing pin and spring, and a Zenith semi auto carrier. The gaps varied from .012 to .019 between the 3 units I had, so all within spec. I can live with that information.

Tail caps/Stocks-I checked the fit of the ends with pistol caps, HK A2 stocks, HK A3 stocks, MagPul A3 stocks and a B&T side fold stock (I have yet to list LOL) When checking them I found that 3 of the 5 went on snuggly, but not too tight while the other two were consistently tight.

Fore end-I had ordered 5 of the wide "tropical" fore ends from Zenith so I had some in the event I wanted to build the guns out as standard full size MP5's. They all went on tight and had to be "snapped" into place. They were tight on the receivers but I am not sure if this was due to the fore ends being slightly long/big, or if it was the receivers themselves. I did try a couple of SureFire 628's I am saving for myself and they went on just fine.

All in all, these receivers are what I would call "blem" as the welds on the cocking tube are pretty thick/heavy, similar to the first batch. BUT that being said, these five units would/could be considered a "drop in" assembly with parts. That being said, it would still not be a good idea to try this unless you know how or what to check as far as bolt gap and such. Just because they were gap checked at the factory, doesn't mean that all carriers are created equal. I did notice that a couple of these receivers had some small dents/defects that affect nothing other than cosmetics, but still it wouldn't look good on a new gun being unboxed like its Christmas morning by an excited man child ROFLMAO (note the humor insertion here)

IF I get a chance to, I'll take one of these receivers to the range and see how it shoots. More will follow....