I'm no expert and only have limited experience actually firing both the HK91 and M1A. Personally, I've found the M1A (M14) to be more accurate and have a better trigger. It also balances better in my hands. The HK91 is heavier, but more rugged and robust. The HK91 feels more like a battle rifle to me, but that's purely subjective. Obviously the M1A has no pistol grip and is not like a traditional assault rifle. Also, the HK91 recoils more since it's a delayed blowback rather than a gas operated weapon. The HK91 can be a huge pain in the ass to field strip when the extractor spring is still very tight. After it loosens some with use, it's easy. I'm talking about stripping the bolt assembly of course. Overall, I'd guess it's personal preference. At this point in time however, I'd say the HK91 is much more collectable and worth more.

 

I have not tried the M14 so I cannot really say anything about the pro and cons of the m14 rifle. But I have a Hk91 and it's definatly a greate rifle in any ways. I use my Hk91 in ipsc shooting and performe greate. The power of the 7.62 shine trough in the longer range when you are shooting steel targets and might hit low. It almost does not matter how good you hit is and the target still goes down. The recoil of the G3 rifle is not bad at all and you can still shot relatively fast. Rifle design is greate, with freefloating barrel. The only drawback with the g3 rifle is that is only has 20shot mag, but still I hit better with my g3 that with my other 223 rifles. And when the range gets alittle better you aim more than at close range. Usually one shot is enough to get the targets down.

Field stipping the G3 is no problem when the rifle is used. My Hk91 is not used that much as I only boght it a few years ago and the last owners mostly stored it in their safe. Because of the little use the stripping the bolt can be a pain if you "screw up" when you put it together . this is no problem with the more used rifles. We use the G3 in the army where I live and my old service rifle I could strip and put together in about one minute.

Because it, without any doubt, is a greate rifle, have a pistol grip, an good diopter sight that is calibrated from 100-400m that really works. I would definatly grab the G3/hk91 over an M14 if I need to "hit the woods" or going to a ipsc match.

I don't really belive the M14 has any better accuracy than the g3 with me shooting my surplus ammo. As long as I can with my first shot and the next 19 shots at a std. ipsc target at a known distance out to 500m I'm more than happy with the performance of a semi auto rifle "battle rifle"

 

I have no experience at all with the G3 but do own an m14 clone which really performs. The only comment I would make is that a rifle in standard configuraton as opposed to one with a pistol grip is much easier to reverse and smack (butt stroke) an opponent under the chin. A small advantage maybe and I guess it all depends on what you want from your "battle" rifle. I also have to say here that if I was ever in a situation where I had to use my rifle as a club it'd probably be all over.

 

The only comment I would make is that a rifle in standard configuraton as opposed to one with a pistol grip is much easier to reverse and smack (butt stroke) an opponent under the chin.

I think the Range Officers at my IPSC matches would probably dq a person for buttstroking a fellow competitor under the chin. And I suspect anybody who did this would be arrested and go to jail too.

 

Ive used both of these rifles a good bit. In my opinion, the M14 is a better target rifle "out of the box" while the G3 is a better battle/military rifle. The M14 has a better trigger(without much work) and better iron sights. The G3 is far more rugged and easier to maintain. I personally find the G3 to be much more handy, but thats a personal preference. The G3 is also more modular, you can swap out stocks, forends etc fairly easily. Both rifles are a pain to scope. If I had to choose an all around rifle, the G3 would be it.

 

my opinion and experience, to a "tee"

 

Thank you, guys, for your detailed replies. They are much appreciated. I was very excited when I bought my M1A a few years ago, but after shooting it a few times I began to worry that it needed some serious work. I am by no means an expert shooter, but I had a terrible time hitting the target with it at 50 yards. 100 yards was a nigtmare. I remember putting it down and picking up my shooter-grade SR9 and blowing the holes out of the target at 50 yards and making nice tight groups at 100 yards. I was thinking that my case was just an isolated one. That said, I sold the M1A and bought another SR9....what a surprise

 

To me the ring inside a ring with a post is a more intuitive sight than the post in a ring offered by the M14. I do like the windage adjustment of the M14, but again one can also hold off into the wind a fair bit with either of these rifles and still get good hits.

 

I have an HK91, an M1A, and an FN-Fal. The HK91 has a rear sight that I can't adapt too, feels heavy and poorly balanced, kicks a lot, and has a terrible trigger pull. The M1A has more of a traditional rifle feel, has a great trigger pull and sights, it fits me better and I tend to shoot it better. The FN is the most ergonomic, easiest to strip for cleaning, easiest to maintain, has acceptable sights and trigger. If I had to choose one it would be the FAL, thank goodness I don't have to limit myself though. They are all different, and all will do the job, and I could be content with any of them.

 

+1

I hate to say this, especially considering this is "HK" Pro, but my vote is the FN FAL also.
Buy a G3 if you have a H&K Auto Sear and you are looking for a bunch of host weapons.
If the plan is semi auto, the FN FAL is vey hard to beat.

Well balanced and feels lighter overall, easier to clean, mags engage great and about the same accuracy as the G3.
The forearm on the FAL heats up quicker, but this is easily fixed.

By the way, the M1's are great but way to heavy for me.

 

No pistol grip = no thanks
I love FALs and G3s, but that big ol' hunk of wood does make a nice club.

 

Years ago picked the HK91 with a auto sear over the non-HB FAL based on shooting the HK91 with a really good muzzle brake (either option was similar in price, several thousand back then).

With out the muzzle brake on the the HK, then the FAL was slightly better on full auto but the FAL (which I could not get the same muzzle brake for), however, the FAL was a little more picky on having the gas setting correct with different ammo and/or when very dirty (or at least the FAL had more of a learning curve). Besides I already had the HK91, which I had paid $385 for - so for a couple grand had a full auto rifle, with the purchase of a sear, carrier, pack and housing.

More recently I had a chance to trade into a SA M14, which while working nicely on semi - was way too fast on full, plus climbed to easily to be that interesting (one really needs to keep the rounds on the back stop 100% of the time in the mid west). When I sold several years ago, it was hard to find anyone interested to purchase it, even for several grand under "internet price" ... of course a year or two later the M14s double in price ... ;-(.

I still have an old pre-ban SA M1A with bayonet lug and a couple FALs in semi to shoot (the medium heavy barrel DSA being a favorite extra gun to take to a shoot, just to shoot ...), and every so often I wish that I had a full auto FAL to make into a HB version, however, more often just wish I had purchased the uncut M60 and BAR for under $4K each, but that is a different thread for a different board.

 

I had a SIG AMT for awhile. Very nicely crafted, if not unusual, rifle. I wish I still had it. They just got to be worth too much money and well..had to make room for more HKs..

 

Your correct they have skyrocketed past alot of other fine original preban rifles.

Here is a PE57 in 7.5 Swiss at GunBroker.com with a starting price of 7500.00
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=75188328

And here is a SIG AMT also at GunBroker.com with a asking price of 7200.00
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=75083639

 

How many people have won at Camp Perry with a G3 or FN-FAL? Are they allowed?

 

Well if they are not allowed wouldn't that be discrimination ?

I think it would be.



It looks like there are many Rifle matches at perry.

http://www.odcmp.com/NM/rifle.htm

Text below from the link above.


THE NATIONAL MATCHES

In February 1903, an amendment to the War Department Appropriations Bill established the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice (NBPRP, the predecessor to today’s Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and Firearms Safety, Inc. that governs the CMP), authorized the National Matches, commissioned the National Trophy and provided funding to support the National Matches. This historic legislation grew out of a desire to improve military marksmanship and national defense preparedness. Supporters of this act included President Theodore Roosevelt, Secretary of War Elihu Root and NRA President General Bird Spencer.

Pursuant to this Congressional authorization, Army General Order No. 61 was published in April 1903. It directed that the first “National Trophy Match” would be fi red at Sea Girt, New Jersey on 8-9 September of that year. Teams of 12 representing the Army, military departments of the states, Navy, Marine Corps and state National Guard organizations competed for the new National “Dogs of War” Trophy. The National Matches moved to Camp Perry in 1907 and with few exceptions, Camp Perry has been the home of the National Matches since then. The matches grew to include not only National Trophy Rifle Matches, but also pistol matches and NRA national championships.

The National Matches celebrated their 100th anniversary in 2003. In the 104 years since the inauguration of the National Matches, they have been organized 86 times. Peak attendance for the matches occurred in 1962 when the matches were supported and conducted by the Department of Defense and 7,762 competitors participated. Defense Department support was withdrawn after the 1967 matches. The NRA and a cadre of volunteers successfully continued the matches, although with significantly reduced participation. Subsequent to that and until 1995, the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice secured federal appropriations to partially support the matches, but federal support for marksmanship created persistent political controversies. As a result, the U. S. Congress privatized the Civilian Marksmanship Program and the National Matches in 1996, while enacting federal legislation that continued to authorize the CMP to conduct the matches (Title 36 USC, §40725-40727). Today, the National Matches include the CMP National Trophy Pistol and Rifle Matches, the Pistol and Rifle Small Arms Firing Schools, CMP Games rifle events and the NRA National Pistol, Smallbore Rifle and Highpower Rifle Championships. The matches are now conducted jointly by the NRA and CMP. In recent years, attendance in the matches has been growing, with combined participation in the CMP and NRA National Matches events exceeding 5,000 persons in 2006.

2007 CMP NATIONAL TROPHY RIFLE MATCHES

The National Trophy Rifle Matches trace their history to the 1903 legislation that established the first National Matches and appropriated funds to acquire the National “Dogs of War” Trophy. This trophy continues to be one of the most prestigious trophies that can be won through rifle shooting in the United States. Today, the National Trophy Rifle Matches provide national championship competitions in service rifle events that preserve the finest traditions of military marksmanship competition in the United States. A total of 36 different National Trophies are awarded during the eight days of competition that now comprise National Trophy Rifle Week.

CMP GAMES RIFLE MATCHES

Nine years ago, the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) inaugurated the John C. Garand Match and, with it, an exciting new concept in target rifle shooting. The Garand Match is a unique competition where shooters fire older “as-issued” military rifles over a course of fire that makes target shooting accessible to thousands of shooters, many of whom do not participate in traditional target competitions. The Garand Match allows shooters to reenact military and marksmanship history and features camaraderie and a relaxed, fun-filled, yet challenging experience. In response to the growing popularity of the Garand Match, the CMP established other competitions of the same type including the Springfield Rifle Match, Vintage Military Rifle Match, Rimfire Sporter Match and M1 Carbine Match. Together, these matches have come to be known as “CMP Games Matches.”

This Official Match Program provides detailed information concerning the 2007 National Trophy Rifle and CMP Games Matches that competitors can use to submit their entries and plan their participation in the 2007
National Matches.

 

It might me being used to the G3, but I found the FAL to be kicking A LOT more when I shot it a year ago for a day. I don't know how to explain it , but G3s recoil is a like a very predictable push to me while the FAL had a very snapping type of recoil.

 

I've only held one FAL, but it was really light compared to my 91. I'd think the extra weight of a 91/G3 itself helps to kill some of the recoil.

 

fal, m1a1, or hk91

decisions, decisions, decisions, well lets see .308 ammo $$$ I think Ill just pop in my .22 g3 conversion kit and shoot 200-300 rounds through my hensholdt g3 scope mounted atop my hk91 for about ooohhh lets see $10.00 $12.00, practice, practice, practice. later switch back to .308 for some serious stuff. You guys with the FAL and M1As you can switch back to .308 any time now (oops) I forgot you never left the .308 realm. Atleast you can still reload YOUR brass. I think I will stay w/ hk, but they are all good weapons.

 

You guys with the FAL and M1As you can switch back to .308 any time now (oops) I forgot you never left the .308 realm. Atleast you can still reload YOUR brass. I think I will stay w/ hk, but they are all good weapons.

There is a .22lr training kit available for the FAL just like the G3/HK91. They are more expensive than the G3 kits and harder to find. The M1A is not so lucky to be convertible to .22lr.

 

I have both a HK SR9T and a Springfield Armory M1A National Match. I have to say that I shoot tighter groups with the SR9T than I do with the M1A. The reason for this is that the 3.5 lb. single-stage PSG1 trigger has a very nice, crisp break. The heavier two-stage trigger on the M1A kind of throws the accuracy off a little. I think the SR9T also benefits from having the polygonal bore. I'm not an expert shooter by any means, but to the best of my abilities, the HK shoots better.

 

M1A and FN FAL are in a tight race. The FALs biggest drawback is it's crappy sights out of the box. The G3 is the most reliable of them all and if you want a rifle that just won't fail, it is the one. The Germans are really good at designing a reliable weapon. It is just too bad they have never heard of ergonomics. The G3 is really a pain to use. It is virtually impossible to pull the cocking handle back without dropping the gun out of the "pocket" and taking it off target. No bolt hold back on the last round either. If you really want to know how your gun handles, you absolutely must take a firearms class with it. You will definitely find all the good points and the bad features by the time you are done and they all have both.

I guess they all have their good and bad points. I am definitely waiting to get my hands on the US made HK417. The AR design is the most ergonomic with controls easy to reach and in the right place. Can't wait to check out the FN SCAR either.

 

I have both and have owned all the major .308 players at one time or another. The M14 has superior sights and trigger and has great balance and handling. The G3 type rifles have heavy triggers and the rear appeture sight has always seemed a little cramped to me. Mags are harder to change on the G3 unless you have the paddle release and the saftey is harder to reach.
From what I learned from the guys in South Africa, they felt the G3 was second only to the AK series in reliablilty. My personaly preference? Easy, the L1A1 version of the FAL. It's a good compromise between the other two.
I'm thinking of trying a custom G3K with a good trigger job and a paddle mag release but that will be a custom job.

 

Hey all,
It's been a while and I was digging through some of my old threads. I am still very much interested in hearing what you guys have to say about the M1A and the G3. Not so much into the FAL series, since they are not on my list.
Looks like the final SR9s in the collection will be out the door soon. On to other things in life. Funny how things change. Having 11 SR9s at one time has made me partial to the German rifles, but I keep going back to the M1As.
Anyone want to chime in on this 2-year-old thread????
Cheers,
--Brian

 

I would love to give you my two cents worth.
right off the bat I will tell you that I am biased to M1A's.
I got to shoot a G3 at a match one time, and thats all it took,
too much recoil. I love HK as nuch as the next guy, but there is
no need in my book to have a 7.62x51/.308 that recoils like that.
I wanted a full power 7.62x51 rifle
I didnt want gas impingement.(I know the HK isnt)
I wanted reliability, I wanted awesome iron sights, and a great trigger.
I also wanted it as modern as possible so I could add things as I saw fit.
This is what I went with.
Springfield M1A Scout
18" barrel with SEI Vortex flash hider.
SEI hooded gas lock front sight.
Sage Mk14MOD1 stock/chassis.
Aimpoint.
Now the Military uses this setup with M14's as sniper rifles (different optics)
I wanted something from CQB to 500 yards, so thats how I set it up.
I also have a 3x magnifier for longer shots.
It does what I want, I can add whatever I please to it, it has awesome irons, and is very accurate.
I also use it for deer hunting, with good results.
The added bonus is, Not everone has one like mine !

 

Silentreaper,
That is a great setup. Thanks for the input, of course!
Please tell me, what Aimpoint is that and what does it cost for a 3x magnifier?
Thanks again!
--Brian

 

Aimpoint Comp ML3 with 2m.o.a. dot
The 3x is pricey, i got it through a friend of a friend deal,
for 350.00 , they retail higher.
here is a pic with the magnifier.

 

Very cool. That thing is pretty sexy indeed. I may have to indulge myself in a new M1A after I sell off some AR crap that I have lying around. Thanks for that pic!! Inspiring!!

 

Have had over a half dozen SA M1As, none of which have ever kept working for a case of ammo with out something failing (typically out of spec. parts and/or too soft), the last being an older one that I purchased from a long time friend who needed money to pay rent.

Spent the last two years trying to get it two work well enough to fire a hundred rounds with out failure, finally gave up and traded to another friend who wanted a project gun.

The HK91 keeps working and has not had any issued since many years ago when did not clean until it failed to fire ... took over a year (friend took the bolt apart at the range, wipped the firing pin and hit the bolt with a blast of oil and good to go).

Bottom line is I have had better luck with Vectors than the SA M1A ... which still like and probably will get another (may not a SA this time ;-).

 

Hey John,
Good to hear from you. Thanks for your input--much appreciated. You are by no means the first that I have heard of with such issues. My biggest problem with the SA M1A was that its accuracy sucked. I ran a few hundred rounds through her without a hiccup, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with her. I will really regret selling off the rest of my SR9 collection, but life takes funny turns here and there I guess.
Cheers,
--Brian

 

My 2nd to last M1A (3rd if you count the NFA one ;-) was a heavy barrel (not match) that would shoot 2 to 3 inch groups with a scope and rest. The HK91 once I got the PSG trigger pack, MSG90A1 stock and 4 power scope was closer to a 1.6 MOA rifle (with clean and cool barrel) thus this M1A went for accuracy and failure to extract every 100 rounds (maybe the best M1A I have had).

Hard to really beat a HK91 ... in particular if one has a few sears to play with ;-)

 

I've played with all these mentioned and a G3 is simple and durable. Still used all over the world (even the mexican army on that show on NG two weeks ago had them using them for the drug wars). FAL's have a gas system and nicer recoil, but lots of little parts and my G1 version was too long and felt heavier for my short arms. I liked it's peep sight but standing shoots were hard. The M14 has great sights and ergos that make it a great sniper type weapon. I also don't like that the G3 doesn't a last round bolt hold open. I'd snipe with the M14 but take the G3 into battle.

 

I've never owned an HK91, but cleaning the M1A from the muzzle is a real bitch, especially if you have a traditional scope mount on it.

 

if you take it out of the stock you can use a graphite cleaning rod and clean from the chamber. a graphite rod will flex enough to work