If you see a full Hk 416 upper and lower...then it is a post-dealer sample...but the majority of the 416's you see are just the upper put on a different lower.

 

What's for sale on the civie market is uppers that have been separated from lowers. It is not that the uppers are "not for sale" -- it is that barrel can only be imported for LE/Mil use. The ones that are for sale have been imported and put to some LE/Mil purpose, and have then been retired from service. Once they have been lawfully imported they can be sold to civilians. My understanding is that there are a lot of LE departments that buy 416s and then decide they really don't like them that much...or something like that...

 

I was looking at the HK416 picture thread above and it seems like they have the authentic stuff with the upper and lower with it being marked by H&K. I wasn't sure if it was just done aftermarket. Where could I find a HK416 or HK417 from the LE's that don't want them? Thanks!

 

I was looking at the HK416 picture thread above and it seems like they have the authentic stuff with the upper and lower with it being marked by H&K. I wasn't sure if it was just done aftermarket. Where could I find a HK416 or HK417 from the LE's that don't want them? Thanks!

Some of the ones in that thread are authentic HK416s, owned by dealers. Some are HK416 uppers on POF or Spike's Tactical or some of the other companies that make lowers with pictogram markings. Some of the non-HK lowers have been engraved with the HK lettering fonts.

To get a 416 or 417, you'll first need an FFL, and next you'll need a "love letter" from a PD or gov. agency requesting a demo of one of them. Nothin' to it.

 

There's a little more to it than that theses days, at least with HK.

1. Precisely worded love letter from department or agency.
2. Precisely worded request from purchaser (FFL/SOT).
3. Precisely worded purchase order from purchaser specifying HK item number and referencing love letter.
4. Up front payment in full.
5. End User Certificate to comply with German regulations.
6. Patience. This process is going to take anywhere from 3 to 12 months.

But other than that, it's a walk in the park. Here's a video (again) of Kat shooting my HK416D with QD suppressor in super slow motion. It's a 14.5" barrel version. BTW, Kat is a MMA champion fighter with pretty good gun skills to boot!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5YqaN3n1IU

 

could you guys elaborate, in laymans terms, the letter from agency , the request from the purchaser,& the end user certificate to comply with german regulations?

 

My question is when can I get one and for how much. Or will they never be available?

 

AD:
I knew you were being sarcastic. I figured the questions would come, so I tried to give a little more detail. But I see that the detail needs to come out anyway, so here goes...

How to Purchase a Genuine HK416, Legally!
​

We are going to assume for the sake of this detail that you are *not* a law enforcement agency or military recipient (or other government authorized entity). The first thing you do is become a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL). Depending on what type of FFL you want, you are looking at $150 and up to get started. Prepare to wait, though. You must clearly demonstrate that your intent is to engage in profitable business and not just kitchen table/gun show sales. Your premises will be inspected (a large part of the delay), so you should be able to demonstrate secure gun storage ability, no zoning or deed restriction issues, etc. You'll eventually get your FFL paper if your ducks are in a row. Now you can buy and sell guns (or make them or import them, depending on what kind of license you received). But you want a machinegun... an HK416D.

The HK416D is a post sample machinegun (please Google this term and a few others). There is no such thing in the US, currently, that is a 416D in anything but select fire, so it must be acquired through a specific process. You aren't a government type, you're an FFL. In order to be able to have a post-sample item transferred to you, you should get a Special Occupational Tax (SOT) certificate. This allows you to conduct business in NFA items, such as machineguns without having to pay the $200 tax everytime a weapon moves. You cannot get the SOT without the FFL in hand, so do not try to file for them simultaneously. It's at least $500 a year for your SOT. You've got your FFL and SOT and you are ready to go buy your HK416D. Hold your Teutonic horses.

In order for an FFL/SOT to legally acquire an HK416D, that person must clearly demonstrate that the weapon is being demonstrated or sold to a bona fide government entity. This is a big deal. If this is going to be a demo gun, you need to be able to prove that you conducted a demo. In order to demonstrate the bona fide nature of the purchase, the specific government entity that will be the recipient of the demo/sale must provide written evidence of their request/purchase. This is called a love letter and it's form and content are specified by the manufacturer and Imports/NFA Branch of BATF. So now you can buy your HK416D...

Not so fast. You must also provide a request on your FFL/SOT letterhead of your intentions. You must also provide a written purchase order from your FFL/SOT to the supplier of the weapon. Both of these have specific form and content. In the case of an HK416D, you will also have to complete an End User Certificate as proscribed by the government of Germany. You have all of your paperwork in order now... so it's time to go buy your gun from HK, right?

Kinda... You'll get quoted a price by either HK or one of their Mil/LE distributors. You pay in full, submit all of your paperwork and wait. Depending on if the guns are in country or not and how fast Imports and NFA Branch work... you could be sitting on your thumbs for 3-12 months. Eventually, UPS will deliver the 416D in a rather nondescript brown box. Hopefully, the driver will not just leave it laying against your front door after hours (as happened to me). You've got your gun.

Don't forget to do a demo!:41:

 

So once this is done...what does one have to do in order to keep his HK 416D?

 

My thanks to straightgrain & AviatorDave. You guys are very helpful.

I didn't like the answer, but now it makes a lot more sense.

thanks again, to you both for your time and help...

 

You know who I'll be calling if the ATF every calls me back after cashing my FFL check on May 1st.

 

Do you have your site inspection scheduled yet? That's the best signal you can get: the IOI calling you up to come check you out.

 

VERY, well said ,Straightgrain

 

It's not a bad sign at all. In the busier districts, like the one you are in, it can take months before the site inspection is scheduled. In the mean time, you can prep:

• Make sure you have your secure storage in place. A safe is good, but a box of cable locks will work.
• Make sure you have the Youth Handgun Safety Act poster on the wall (you can order one for free from BATF).
• Make sure that you have your sales tax certificate and any other needed certificates posted on the wall.
• Make sure that you have a way to clearly communicate that this is a business. It's been my experience that IOI's like to see a credit card terminal and the Visa/MC/Amex/Disc accepted here sticker somewhere.
• If you are doing this out of your house, make sure that you can prove, in writing, that deed restrictions do not prevent you from doing this.
• You will not be selling at gun shows (even if you are planning to). Make sure that you show the IOI a visible distaste for gun shows.
• Go ahead and start setting up a filing system that you can point to during your inspection (bound book, FFL log, etc.)

 

Does your property have to be zoned comercial in order to get a FFL? Also, what happens to your FFL if, like me, you are in the military and have to move?

Thanks!

 

As long as the FFL/SOT is maintained, the dealer can retain the 416D for demonstration use. Again, it is essential that bona fide demo(s) take place. If the FFL/SOT lapses, the post sample 416D and any other post samples must be lawfully transferred to another entity that can lawfully possess the weapon(s)... *before* the lapse takes place. Otherwise, the the post samples will be unlawfully possessed. And that will not be fun.

As long as the FFL/SOT is maintained, no problem. This applies to service personnel, too. If you are not maintaining the FFL premises, you may have an issue since there is no lawful place of business.

As far as zoning codes and ordinances go, the BATF does abide by them when they are in effect. This includes neighborhood deed restrictions.

 

As long as the FFL/SOT is maintained, the dealer can retain the 416D for demonstration use. Again, it is essential that bona fide demo(s) take place. If the FFL/SOT lapses, the post sample 416D and any other post samples must be lawfully transferred to another entity that can lawfully possess the weapon(s)... *before* the lapse takes place. Otherwise, the the post samples will be unlawfully possessed. And that will not be fun.

Question:
Could it transferred to another SOT along with the "love letter"? Where else would one go to sell it off if they were done being an FFL/SOT?

 

I hosed a ton of rounds through the 416 at the saddle butte machinegun shoot rescently.....with the AAC QD suppressor of course......I was very very impressed. Hk is once again superrior to virtually every other comparable product in it's class. I highly reccomend one of these uppers, as the performance and ergonomics are amazing!!!

 

I prefer to have the whole gun H&K I guess I have to wait for them to hit the civilian market.

 

The transfer to another FFL/SOT would be the same process that the original FFL went through, including the approval process, but absent the end user certificate (since it is not coming from HK). This needs to be done before the FFL/SOT lapses. Other places the weapon could be lawfully transferred to include:

1. Any federal LE or military end user
2. Any bona fide LE agency
3. I believe that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is also a valid recipient
4. The lower could be properly destroyed and the parts sold off